468. Joyful and Impactful Climate Choices with Elizabeth Dunn and Jiaying Zhao

Sometimes saving the planet can feel like a massive, exhausting guilt trip. 

In this episode, Debbie sits down with University of British Columbia professors Elizabeth Dunn and Jiaying Zhao to talk about their book, Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species. 

Their main point is about the whole "you must be perfect" climate messaging is totally backfiring, and focusing on joyful, high-impact changes is actually what keeps people motivated. Jiaying breaks down a massive 63-country study showing how scare tactics just make people want to shut down, and the duo debunks some common eco-myths.

It turns out that obsessing over turning off the lights or choosing the perfect reusable bag doesn't move the needle much. Instead, they shout out smarter, high-leverage moves like treating beef and lamb as occasional splurges, eating more plants, and traveling lighter. 

They also get into how to influence the people around you by making sustainable choices easy, attractive, and non-political, proving that individual habits and big systemic changes (like voting) both matter.

Listen and Learn: 

• How "doom and gloom" climate messaging actually backfires by discouraging real-world action
• Surprising insights from a massive global study of 60,000 participants across 63 countries
• Finding joyful, climate-friendly lifestyle changes to create a positive feedback loop that makes us happier and more motivated to protect the planet 
• How making practical, high-impact shifts in your daily habits like smarter food choices can create a truly sustainable difference for both you and the planet
• Data-backed truth behind common environmental myths and how to easily focus your energy on the daily lifestyle choices that actually make a high-impact difference for the planet  
• How to significantly lower your carbon footprint without sacrificing the foods you love
• Reducing your carbon footprint without giving up the joy of travel by mastering the art of packing light, making smarter flight choices, and embracing the unexpected adventure of staycations 
• How to inspire positive behavior change in others without lecturing them on climate change 
• Why individual action and systemic change are not a false dichotomy, but rather a powerful partnership where local community engagement can drive larger policy shifts and boost your personal happiness 

Resources: 

• Leave the Lights On: How Joyful Decisions Can Save Our Species
• www.happyclimate.org 
• Book Debbie mentioned: Soil: The Story of a Black Mother's Garden, by Camille T. Dungy
• Debbie’s essay about the drought in Denver, with pictures of her low-water garden: https://drdebbiesorensen.substack.com/p/drought-dispatches-from-denver 

About Elizabeth Dunn 

Elizabeth Dunn is Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia and coauthor of Happy Money. She directs UBC’s Happy Lab, which focuses on how to optimize valuable resources including time, money, and carbon to maximize human well-being. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The Atlantic, TIME, Rolling Stone, and Harvard Business Review; and on numerous podcasts and television shows, including Hidden Brain, NPR’s Short Wave, The Happiness Lab, Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris, Morning Joe, and CBS Mornings. Dunn spoke on the TED mainstage in 2019, and her t