PPP 510 | The Word Great Leaders Keep Using (And Most Leaders Avoid), with Marcus Buckingham

Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes back Marcus Buckingham, bestselling author and researcher, to discuss his new book, Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business. For 25 years, Marcus studied the most productive teams, loyal customers, and effective leaders in the world, and the word that kept appearing in his data was one he kept changing: love.

Andy and Marcus explore what love actually means in a business context, including how leaders are really experience makers whether they know it or not. You will hear the remarkable story of Josh D'Amaro, the CEO of Disney, and what his leadership reveals about designing love into a team's daily experience. Marcus unpacks the five feelings that lead people to say they love working for a leader, starting with something counterintuitive: control. The conversation also covers tough love, AI's limits as an experience maker, and how these principles can transform how we lead our families too.

If you're looking for a fresh, evidence-based look at what drives sustained high performance, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

• "I kept hearing that word (love) and shame on me, but I did keep changing it because I felt like it was a careless exaggeration of the word like or something."
• "Don't keep changing the word (love). The word's the word. The question really should be why and how do we replicate it?"
• "You're paid to change behavior. That's all you're paid to do. You're not paid to run a project. You're paid to change behavior as a leader."
• "When you send an email, it's not an email. It's an experience for the person on the other end. When you call that team meeting, it's not a team meeting. It's an experience."
• "You join a company and then you quit your boss."
• "Undesigned experiences lead to unpredictable outcomes."
• "It's cowardly, not loving. It's cowardly to leave them in that job."
• "I am for you. I am for you. That doesn't always mean that I am going to tell you what you wanna hear. It means I want you to flourish."
• "Loving's an ingredient, right? Loving isn't, 'Be nicer.' Loving's like, 'What are you trying to do for me?'"
• "The beginning of love is rules. The beginning of love is clarity."

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:48 Start of Interview
• 01:57 Why Marcus Spent Decades Avoiding the Word "Love"
• 05:47 Misconceptions About Love in Business
• 11:29 Inside the "Josh Effect"
• 18:02 What Great Leaders Don't Do
• 22:13 Local Leadership and Variation in Team Experience
• 27:54 When Senior Leaders Couldn't Say the Word
• 31:04 Applying the "Is This Loving or Unloving?" Lens
• 37:43 Tough Love and Difficult Performance Conversations
• 46:20 Practical Takeaways: The Five Feelings of Love
• 50:25 AI and the Role of Love in Leadership
• 56:34 Designing Love Into Parenting and Family
• 1:01:26 End of Interview
• 1:01:57 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 1:05:03 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Marcus and his work at BuckinghamInstitute.com.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 252, which is our earlier interview with Marcus Buckingham. That book still impacts how Andy leads years after having Marcus on the first time.
• Episode 332 with Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel. A discussion about keeping your teams engaged and connected, even if they're not co-located.