You are the Church: Psychedelics Within and Without Ceremony, a Conversation with Payam

Payam walks the threshold between worlds—as Spirit Walker, Medicine Carrier, and Lecturer—where ancestral wisdom converges with contemporary science. His vocation is the orchestration of healing journeys that dissolve trauma, recalibrate the psyche, and awaken the soul’s remembrance of wholeness.

Initiated through extensive apprenticeships with visionaries such as Dr. Richard Schwartz, Dr. Gabor Maté, Dr. Mia Leijssen, and Dr. Isa Gucciardi, his formation spans Internal Family Systems, Compassionate Inquiry, existential and somatic practices, and psychedelic integration. Augmenting this with post-graduate study in trauma, contemplative neuroscience, and psychedelic-assisted therapies at institutions including the Nalanda Institute, Horizons, and Princeton University, he embodies a synthesis of rigorous scholarship and embodied mysticism.

Through international collaborations with physicians, psychiatrists, and healers, Payam curates sacred containers that weave together shamanic lineage, somatic intelligence, and evidence-based modalities—inviting participants to transmute pain into purpose, and silence into song.

This conversation is a deep exploration of medicine, ceremony, and healing—bridging psychedelics, spirituality, and tradition with questions of safety, authenticity, and integration…all of which are critical to birthwork.

* 00:05:10 - Rapé Drop-In and Origins of This Practice

Payam and Nathan began their conversation with a breathing exercise and meditation, focusing on healing and balancing energy. They then discussed the importance of rapé (“Ha-pay”), a practice that involves journeying and exploration of the mind and spirit. Nathan asked Payam about Hape’s origins and significance, expressing curiosity about its role in his work. They also discuss the importance of recognizing the masculine and feminine within all of us. Payam discussed the use of rapé, a medicine made from Mapacho, for grounding and connecting with spirits, and its application in energy work and ceremonies. He explained the energetic and spiritual significance of masculine and feminine qualities, associated with the right and left sides of the body respectively, and emphasized the importance of integrating these qualities for personal growth and healing. Nathan inquired about the practical application of these concepts during ceremonies, and Payam shared insights about warrior archetypes and energy work, highlighting the role of energy medicine in activating and discharging these archetypes.

* 00:27:00 - Holding Ceremony as Consciousness Exploration

Are hallucinations real even if they don’t fit into our physical experience of reality in a clear way? Nathan and Payam discussed the nature and purpose of ceremonies, emphasizing their role as safe spaces for exploring consciousness and the self. They highlighted the concept of the “relativization of the self” and the importance of intention and setting in creating a meaningful and safe experience. Payam shared his understanding of ceremonies as a way to connect with the wisdom of spirits and gain insights into the bigger picture, while Nathan compared the experience to exploring different facets of the self in a “playground.” They also touched on the relevance of ceremonies in understanding inner and societal polarities, suggesting that they can foster a sense of unity and shared humanity. What do we mean when we say “the world is losing it’s mind”?

* 00:38:45 - Psychedelics Can Be Healing Within the Appropriate Container and Integration

Nathan and Payam discussed the potential risks and benefits of using psychedelic substances, particularly in unstructured settings like Burning Man. Payam emphasized the importance of proper ceremony and facilitation when working with these substances, explaining how he carefully manages energy fie